Episode 5: Building Bridges Community Partnerships in Zambia with Dr. Simona Simona

Lynn Michalopoulos: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Social Work Is Everywhere podcast where we uncover the powerful, diverse, and far-reaching impact of social work across the globe. We are your host, Dr. Lynn Murphy Opolis,

David Robertson: David Robertson.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Through the voices of the University of Maryland School of Social Work Community, we'll explore unique perspectives and innovative initiatives shaping the future of the field.

David Robertson: Each episode, we spotlight the practice, research and experience of students and social workers from clinical care to policy change. Social work is truly everywhere.

​David Robertson: Today I am very excited to welcome a dear friend and colleague, that I've known for years, Dr. Simona Simona. Dr. Simona is a lecturer in the Department of Social Work and Sociology at the University of Zambia. And also holds another title, which I will let him describe.

So if you can tell us, your other role as leading research at University of Zambia, and then just give us a bit about your background, that would be great.[00:01:00]

Simona: Alright. very much for having me. Gregs, as, Lynn mentioned, we come from a long way. we call ourselves, partners in crime. we have had, some engagements for quite some time. I think it's over, almost, 10 years now.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Yeah.

Simona: so I, I think I, I, I'm well introduced to, I'm Simon Simona, and, I am, a lecturer in the department of, social work and, and sociology. and also, serve as the current assistant dean, assistant faculty dean in charge of research in the school of, humanities and social sciences. I have been a researcher, for over 10 years now. I hold a PhD in, sociology and quantitative social science methods, from the University of Glasgow in the United Kingdom.

and I teach, research methods and sociology. sociology of [00:02:00] health, and medicine and so many other courses. So I'm happy to be here and I'm looking forward to our engagement, today. Thank you very much.

David Robertson: Thank you. Thanks for meeting.

I'm curious because I'm an invited student in this space, how did you all's collaboration begin and what motivated your focus on community partnerships? Dr. Simona.

Simona: Well, thank you very much. I think, like I have said, our collaboration began, quite some time back. It's around, 10 years old.

I think it's out of, shared interest. I think the first time when I was introduced to Lynn, if I remember very well, it was, I think the head, our department, who came to my office. And say that, you know, we have somebody who is doing research, here in Zambia, and she's working on qualitative, methods.

I remember, I had just come from South Africa with my, skills [00:03:00] in, qualitative data analysis.

David Robertson: Mm-hmm.

Simona: And I think the head of department was aware of that. And, he thought that I was the right person To be in this collaboration. and so we met, and then we started doing some work together.

I remember, I think the first, you know, it was some research on, Fisher Folks in Kafue. and then we did, a bit on, international truck driver studies. yeah. and from there we just went off to quite a number of things. I think we will be discussing those as we go. Yeah. but really it's just some shared interests and they're looking at, the vulnerable communities within our country. and I think that, you know, statistics show that, you know, Fisher folks. More vulnerable, you know, to, HIV risks, and, and, and, and, you know, because of the nature of their work, those vulnerabilities compelled us to focus on them, as well as, international truck drivers, because of the nature of their work. So really to answer your question, [00:04:00] it's just based on shared interests to focus on the vulnerable communities, within our country.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Yeah. and you did also a lot of work with gender-based violence, on a larger scale as well, right? didn't you do multi-country work?

Simona: Yeah. So, I think based on my other, works, we really focused on, GBV gender based violence against women, in Zambia and also across Sub-Saharan Africa.

So I had a bit of that kind of background, which shows bringing to the table and together with our unique backgrounds, I think we managed to create a, a very. Solid partnership that have lasted for quite a long time.

Lynn Michalopoulos: in your work, you do a lot of, we've done a lot of work together with, vulnerable communities, but then Zambia and, and, you know, really try to partner with those communities.

And so, you know, in your work, like how do you define community partnerships and kind of what, what is, how has that looked like in, in practice?

Simona: [00:05:00] Yeah. I think, community partnerships could be defined, in different ways. I think for us it would really be some sort of relationships between researchers and the local communities, right?

Lynn Michalopoulos: Mm-hmm.

Simona: Community members, organizations, and other stakeholders.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Mm-hmm.

Simona: but I think the emphasis really is on research that is relevant. Right. You know, to the local community. and research that, that is ethical and research, which is beneficial .

to the communities that are involved. So I think on that lens, that is how we can define, community partnerships in our sense the involvement of the communities themselves. . in really fostering, solutions for their own problems. which really is going to push, the research to become relevant and to become beneficial to the communities themselves.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Yeah, that's really important. I mean, I think the relevance, the, being [00:06:00] ethical and multi-level, partnerships with, with key stakeholders, so like with Fisher Folk, but also community partners, government, I think is also important. One thing that folks may not know that I wanted to share, that, Simone and I, were co co-founders of the Moving Well Project, the nonprofit, that I founded, in before I came back to University of Maryland.

And, you know, we really focused on. I felt we really tried to be thoughtful, about, how we presented information. So even thinking about like the ethical approach and relevance approach, you know, like, so really working closely with the Fisher folk, the chairman of the, the marketplace. and also how we, portrayed information so that we weren't portraying information such as.

You know, oh, these poor fisher folk, like they're also resilient as well and had strengths, and, you know, would know what, what would work for their community. So, and Simona was, was key in that, that kind of approach.

Simona: Yeah. [00:07:00] And, and, you know, I've done a lot of work in the moving well project and really what was unique about it, is that, you know, we wanted the solutions to really work for the people. So sometimes I remember at some point we even used some very, prominent, psychological models. I think we were, you know, trying to address, mental health issues.

but before we done the implementation, we made sure that we did a third job, in terms of revising that model. which. Involved the communities themselves. So we had, our research assistants staying in the community to make sure that, you know, the voices of the people are included in the model that we were going to implement.

make sure that, you know, the needs of the communities are, are captured. and then we did a third job to revise that, you know, international model to make sure. That [00:08:00] it is really relevant to the communities that we were looking at, and that really included, you know, having several, series of, of meetings with, with the beneficiaries so that their voices are included, from start to end.

So that really is a very unique approach, which we leveraged, in our organization. And I think it has been, quite, an central theme. in our research, you know. from the beginning, you know, this idea of having, community participation, you know?

Mm-hmm. especially in interventions that we were able to launch. and I think that that's really been very, very important and, unique for our organization and also for our research.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Do you find that that's something that's, taught or emphasized within, you know, teaching folks within Zambia, like students getting their master's, PhD, like even undergrad, that like community-based approach?

Simona: I was actually, with a colleague, to say that. [00:09:00] sometimes, the thinking is that local researchers are very embedded in local communities, which is not actually the case, most of the time. that's why you find that in terms of, implementing research, which is, community based.

it is not enough to just get some views from, local researchers themselves. but also, what would be important is to really go in on the ground, and have some interactions with the communities themselves.

Because local researchers may not be very family on the ground.

So you see, we do a lot of, you know, we encourage our students to do. Such kind of projects where they don't only, you know, get ideas from, from the lecturers or the instructors themselves, but to go on the ground and have some interactions with, opportunities. So there are now a lot of, you know, upcoming researchers that, are focused on community participation, using [00:10:00] participatory research, methods.

That are really community centered. And especially those intervention based, kind of research that ensures that, you know, the communities have ownership. To any kind of interventions that, that, that, that is brought to them. because without ownership, there's really nothing that can be, that can be done, so,

we, we have a, we still have a lot of work anyway in, in that space. I think that, Even local researchers and local lecturers who has a lot of work that needs to be, to be done, to make sure that, community participation is, is encouraged. Because I think that that's the way, if we have to bring in interventions that help and benefit the people on the ground.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Yeah. I mean, I feel like we struggle with that here in the states. Too many researchers struggle with that.

David Robertson: Dr. Simona? I, I'm curious as a up and coming global [00:11:00] researcher around global grief is, is that, what advice would you offer, social workers engaging in global research who wanna avoid extractive approaches?

Simona: Yeah. I think, it's fascinating really to look at these concepts which are coming up, such as, parachute style kind of research.

and extractive research, technologies, which. are quite spot on when you look at the approaches that have been, existing for quite a long time.

so these are situations where you come in, you know, you drop into a community, collect your data and off you go. You know, without even having that shared, experience with, the local communities that are likely to be affected by your study. so this, we should try by all means, as a part of global research, community to discourage, you know, so that, every kind of research that we may be [00:12:00] involved in could involve local engagement, right?

could involve capacity building,

it could benefit the local population. and that is very, very important for, you know, global social workers that, are engaged in this, global research community. I think a few things, you know, that we need to bear in mind.

One could be engagement with the community quite early, in the research process. So that we don't come with a fully baked research project.

that has not, involved people from the beginning because how do you know, your project may not even be a priority for that particular community.

Right, right.

Yeah. and sometimes we have this tendency of thinking that the local, communities, may not know, what they want, but that is actually a fallacy because they actually know, what they want.

It's important to start early, so that we can inculcate this, equitable participation with the local stakeholders.

And these stakeholders can involve maybe local researchers because local [00:13:00] researchers are closer to the ground, right? So they may know a few things that, global researchers may not know. Involvement of institutions as well, involvement of communities. As I have said, not at the tail end of the project, but from the beginning, even when you are, coming up with research questions, for example, what areas are you going to focus on?

It's very important that, the local communities are involved from the beginning. And it's also, important to build this genuine, long-term partnerships. and I've already given an example of our own partnership with Lynn that has lasted for over 10 years.

why has it lasted for this long is because we respect each other, right? So we have trust, you know, for each other. so we have cultivated this mutual respect, you know, and also shared the responsibility, over time. So it's, that's very important.

so you don't just come and do one project and then [00:14:00] you go.

but you force this sort of partnership, long-term partnership, that is going to benefit, both ends.

And that may involve, you know, the creation of MOUs, for example, memorandum of understanding between institutions. which we have done, between Unda and Maryland.

Mm-hmm. So we have done that. so that foster a long-term partnership because you have a standing, MOU between institutions at a very high assigned by our Vice Chairs. and that would include any kind of projects to involve schools that involve departments. so departments do not have to create their own, view.

It is already created at a higher level. and that, means collaborations can take place between those institutions. So building of long term partnerships, very, very important.

Trust between institutions, so that's very important.

David Robertson: One quick question because it's burning [00:15:00] in me, in regards to, there's a lot of humility that I've heard that needs to be really infused in this. And as a social worker, we are really focused on competency, but I'm hearing it's really a lot of humility, right? Can you just give me a little bit of your, lived experience on the difference between cultural competency and cultural humility?

Simona: I think that's, you know, somebody who said, if you are not humble, you can't learn. humility, fosters illness to learning, right? So it's not only me having competent in the research methods, for example.

but being humble enough to realize that there are some things which I don't know. And, what I teach my students, I tell them that you should go into the field, like an idiot.

Lynn Michalopoulos: That's awesome.[00:16:00]

I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start using that.

Simona: Yeah.

you know some technical aspects, right? you've been to class, you have learned quantitative research you've learned, software, right? But where you are going, you don't know. Sometimes you might assume, you know, but you don't have that lived experience, right?

That the people on the ground have. So in that sense, you are an idiot and that is going to put you down,

That is

going to, yeah. So, that realization That you don't know it is really going to humble you, right? Mm-hmm. and put you down, to learn, from the people themselves who know about their own lives, right?

So they have solutions to their own problems, you know? So what you need to do is to respect that, and listen. I remember when, I did psychology as my minor in [00:17:00] university. and there was a course in counseling and in my mind, I thought that counseling, means providing solutions to the people.

Like when somebody walks into the room, I read all their problems and I begin to dish out some solutions,

so I

was very scared, you know, when I went to class in psychology to hear that you actually don't know anything, even if you are a counselor. You must listen to the people.

Because the people themselves have solutions to their own problems. So what you need to do, just provide some kind of guidance, towards those solutions. But do more of listening. Than advising. Right. And, for me, I was very disappointed, at that time because I thought that, I was gonna gain these superpowers to really impose my knowledge.

you know, to impose this knowledge that I have on. My [00:18:00] clients, you know? But it's not like that. people know, and we must respect that. Put aside our so-called competency and apply it when it's, required, but as you are interacting with the people, you must do more of listening, and you require humility to do that.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Yeah. I think that the openness and listening is really important. I feel like I've been working in Zambia since 2012, and I learn every time I go I think that's important. what do you wish academic institutions or funders better understood about the realities of engaging in this type of work?

Simona: Yeah, I think we have touched a little bit of that. that is, to say that, we really cannot emphasize this, more the idea that we respect local knowledge. Come with that sort of, humbleness and the humility in our approaches

To [00:19:00] really make sure that, we learn a lot and also involve, the people in a participatory manner even as we are extracting knowledge, just to be sure that this knowledge, is coming from the people and I'm sure you know, in the qualitative space you know, in the qualitative research space that Why are you a two? because you are the one who is doing the interpretation, right? So you are collecting data and doing the interpretation. Mm-hmm. And another question is from both Lens, are you doing the interpretation?

we are not saying that, you have to involve everybody. You can do the, the interpretation, but. Important to get back to the people after you have done your analysis to see if what you have interpreted actually represents whether your interpretation actually represents the views of the people that you interviewed.

So that is very important.

David Robertson: Yeah.

Simona: not only just explain data, do analysis and [00:20:00] publish in these you know, kind of journals, inCorp and that kind of thing.

it's really the idea of getting the data, do your analysis quite all right, and then go back to the people and try to engage with them and see if you are representing them well in your analysis. So I think that that's very, very important

Lynn Michalopoulos: Exactly.

David Robertson: Dr. Simona, I know we're almost at time, but I just wanted to ask a question around hope. you know, we're navigating some really ambiguous and unique times globally, politically. what gives you hope about the future of global research partnerships?

Simona: I think this is a, very good question.

we know that there are so many changes which are taking place, around the world. But for me, what gives me hope is the level of enlightenment, that is there, whether it's on local researchers, or on the communities themselves.

there is a lot of exposure today [00:21:00] because of so many aspects of technology and globalization,

Lynn Michalopoulos:

Simona: such that, there are.

A lot of, things that we know about the global, for example, as researchers, and there are higher levels of exposure, so we know when we have an engagement that, you know, we have a stake in this. So if you're bringing a project, for example, you face a lot of questions in terms of, the benefits that this project brings,

To the local communities. so in that sense there, there is really a lot of hope, in terms of, the exposure that you find among, local researchers. because there are a lot of, activities that are going on. These are very well engaged, researchers

You know, so they would demand equal treatment. Whether it's in the publication space, whether it's on sharing of resources. whether it's, you know, writing of grants, we have, you know, wrote a grant with Lynn and we [00:22:00] had this equal partnership in terms of, contribution to the research proposal itself, right?

So that gives me a lot of hope, because these are not people that, would just, for anything they are going to demand. what is due to the community, their communities, and what is due to them. and also just within the communities themselves, now you have this technology where everybody has access to mobile phones, for example.

there is this, financial inclusion because of, different aspects. Of improvements in several spaces.

so there are empowered communities, in a sense. when you go there, as a researcher, you're going to face questions, they'll ask about, what is in there, for themselves.

demand that you don't just, use them to extract data. So this what you've brought, what is it? what is it in for us and what are you going to provide in terms of capacity building and, enhancing their livelihoods. So they'll not leave you [00:23:00] alone.

They will engage you. They will ask questions. They will demand what is due, to them. so collectively that is really what gives me some hope, for the future. I think that, there will be increased, engagement in terms of, equality. and also there are some changes.

And I know for example, they will demand that, you spell out. Aspects of equality, across the globe. so, you know, there are these realizations, even not only within our global south, research community

David Robertson: mm-hmm.

Simona: also just across the world. there are several benchmarks that funders, for example, would demand, from you if you are proposing research project. Right. in terms of really emphasizing on this, equality aspect. So that is really what gives me hope for the future.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Thank you. And one last, question, another point that, Folks probably do not know about you, and this is especially to our PhD students. Dr. [00:24:00] Simona is a guru in R and is there any way that folks can be in touch with you or, know where to find more information about?All of your expertise, in quantitative methods and especially are because it's, it's something that there, there's not.

Simona: No, I actually lent my R at the Univesity of Michigan. You know, like, I had a visit there sometime back but in terms of reaching out, I'm very active on LinkedIn. I actually just published a book, for students. you know, it's called, a well-rounded student achieving academic excellence and building life skills in university. that is, you know, I have spent a lot of time really, and you find a lot of my stories there, just my own journey. From a very poor village to the [00:25:00] university. and hopefully it's going to provide, some inspirations, for young people.

Lynn Michalopoulos: Just, just spread that around.

Simona: yeah, so there's also another book in R which is coming up, so fingers crossed, I think the next few months, it'll finish. I love R and I've done a lot with it, so. I decided that I should write a book, just to provide some explanation and a few things in there.

Yeah, so I'm sure you are also going to indicate my email address. Lynn knows everything. Okay, so when you post your, the, the, the podcast, you can, include my name, my, my, my email address there, you know, I'm, you know, free. Anybody can reach out at any time.

Thank you. thank you very much. Thank you.

David Robertson: For those listeners who are listening and don't see anything, I just found Dr. Simona. It is Simona Simona, PHD, on LinkedIn,

Lynn Michalopoulos: Thank you. So thank you all for listening to the Social Workers Everywhere podcast. [00:26:00] If you've been inspired by the stories and impact shared today, consider supporting the University of Maryland School of Social Work.

David Robertson: Every gift matters visit ssw.umaryland.edu/give To donate today, choose other and specify Global.

Lynn Michalopoulos: And to request more information about admission to the University of Maryland School of Social work, visit ssw.umaryland.edu/msw.

David Robertson: Thanks Dr. Simona.